Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. This allows the cement to properly hydrate, resulting in a strong, dense bond coat. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. . However, if installed on drywall, it only protects one side. We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Anytime Mongo. There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. We like that the Kerdi membrane material installs easily over almost any substrate, including standard wallboard. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Think about movement. You provide the pitch during the tile set. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. The site is called floorelf.com. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. x 60 in. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Find the website that's made specifically for you. Let's start! Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. That would tell him where the edge of the framing needs to be. Gettin' a little delirious. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. The completed assembly takes the place of more traditional backer board when installed over 3/4-inch wood subfloors. If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Kerdi, a waterproofing membrane made of a special polyethylene fabric, should be allowed to completely dry prior to tiling. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Kerdi Membrane is a product of Schluter systems. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Waterproof showers are the trend today, so RedGard is an excellent alternative to cement boards that act as vapor barriers. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer) as we strive to provide site experiences for browsers that support new web standards and security practices. x 48 in. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. Properly waterproofing a shower area sharing a living room wall, Can I use cement accelerator to decrease setup time of modified thinset. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. I also used the Kerdi drain. Is a PhD visitor considered as a visiting scholar? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Welcome to the site. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. Thanks. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. The thin-set mortar should be mixed to a fairly dry consistency and then spread on the surface with a 1/4 inch square notch trowel. Builder saying he doesn't want to put my trim tile in here. We want that inside corner able to move. Removing bathroom tile from cement backerboard, Transition from KERDI membrane backed, to not backed. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. En cliquant sur Accepter , j'accepte l'utilisation des cookies telle qu'elle est dcrite plus en dtail dans la Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. When it comes to applying KERDI, however, it is advised to use a regular thinset that includes portland cement as its main component. I can take a bit of it off the wall and roll it into a ball. I guess that why it was so frustrating that cement board is just sooo thirsty. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. :/. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. They are square. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. I would get someone else. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. The main types of cement board you could encounter are Fibre Reinforced Cement (FRC) board and gypsum board. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. It only takes a minute to sign up. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Cut the shower tray to size. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . I imagine we could share some good stories. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Good luck with your project. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Step 8: Allow to dry. Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Here is a video off the Schluter-Kerdi website that describes how to apply the waterproof membrane on top of the substrate (gypsum board in this case): http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. @JimmyFix-it - You are right. Required fields are marked *. However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. #2. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Jun 21, 2017. You are wise to use a cement board. I also used the Kerdi drain. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. While cement board and grout are not waterproof, Kerdi is and can even be directly installed over drywall. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall.
Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Go with smaller bags or only mix half. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. The mortar does . My understanding is that Schluter-Kerdi, being a sheet topical membrane, recommends just going with regular drywall instead of cement board but you can certainly use cement board as the substrate. Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. Your real issues are the lack of proper corners on this shower. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Will use the Schluter Shower system. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. What was the indicator that let you know that spritzing was not enough, and that you needed to 'sponge' the Hardi? Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . Needed to interject a little "amateur humor.