When looking for clubs that fit your game, a professional club fitter will look at these factors down below to determine what their lie angle should be: I know this concept can be confusing, especially if you have never been fit for golf clubs before. How much of static bounce is positive at impact?..we have to start from a static bounce of MORE than the difference to have any, and 31* minus 20.2* = 10.8 static bounce is needed to get ZERO. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver Manage your expectations, dont expect to hit every shot close, Make smarter club choices based off the above, Be sensible: The middle of the green is a GREAT place to be, The average golfer will get up and down from a bunker, 1 out of 5 times, The average golfer manages to get up and down around 1 in 3 times, Short game shots from the fairway have the highest success rate. Sign up to receive product offers and news! make it a "digger" per say? St Louis, MO. They wont question a fitter who recommends that they switch to a 10.5-degree driver instead of an 8.5 or 9.5, because those are established as acceptable driver lofts. We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. Bending lofts to 2 degrees stronger - WRX Club Techs - GolfWRX That's what I did with my 4i: took out the 95 gram KBS shaft and replaced it with a 75-gram SteelFiber 780 HLS hybrid shaft. In 11 starts since gaining his place at the top level, the 26-year-old has made four cuts, including a first-time-out 12th at the Fortinet, 10th in Bermuda (led after a first round 62), 22nd at the American Express 7th after day one) and top-30 at the Plantation Course last week. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. I showed him all the stats on the monitor and he was in agreement but when it came to buying the actual driver he insisted on buying the 9.5 head with the TP after all the work on the launch monitor. I use Ping I Blades and Ping have a 'power spec' on their website for these where the lofts can be bent to and still retain playabilty. Espana. Reset Password Restore formatting, If a golfer was a digger, will he/she still get somewhat better turf interaction with the GI irons vs. with a players irons? The reason this happens has to do with an irons center of gravity (COG), because when you lower an irons COG you add a lot of potential height to a golf shot. I'm guessing it will dig more but how much more? I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. If they are not bent properly you can change the lie fairly easily unintentionally. It is amazing how much higher/lower similar irons can perform, in terms of player level. Shane Lowry on the new Srixon ZX Mk II line (fairway wood, utility, ZX5/ZX7 irons). Pasted as rich text. TM TPx. Lets assume that the launch angle with a modern-lofted set of irons is ideal. weight removed), (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. (I ran into this today.) Can I bend my irons strong? - Golf Clubs - Team Titleist probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. Each player is different and because of this each iron plays different for each player. There is no worry about bending a club that was bent last year or last week. You cannot paste images directly. Vokey 54.10, 2009 58.12 M, Testing TM MG2 60* TW grind and MG356* TW grind. Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Club Fitting - Team Titleist LOWER COG IN NEW IRONS REQUIRES LESS LOFT A LOT OF THE TIME TO GET THE SAME DISTANCE OF OLDER CLUBS WITH A HIGHER COG. I will also need to bend my irons 2 degrees flat according to a lie board. Adams A12 19 - Fuji HB 80X, PXG 0311X 4 - HZRDUS Red 105 X Ultimately, your answer is yes, you can do this. So going 2 strong will remove 2 degrees of bounce. A lot of mixing and matching Nick is a Certified Performance Club Fitter at Carl's Golfland in Bloomfield Hills, Mich. The bounce will be irrelevant to begin with in that case anyway. Why would you weaken the lofts of every club and increase the bounce angle by a proportionate amount if you could just get rid of the 3 iron and add a gap wedge? Good point. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. The basic fundamentals of striking a golf ball have not changed nearly as much as golf club technology, and those fundamentals have their roots dating back a hundred years to Bobby Jones and his peers or even further. some strong lofts there, i thought you had blade type irons so, which have weaker lofts? Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. Thanks everybody for the help! Step 3. JavaScript is disabled. I truly wish customers would do their do diligence before getting fit. Idk CG specifics on those models, but I have seen similar results with I20, and G25. Sitemap. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. The 2 that were out the most went from 'avoided' clubs to 'favourites'! The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. Thats not to say this exotic land doesnt bring a classy winner. Contact Us I am 2 handicap, playing Scottish Links golf, smooth tempo, 80-90mph, pretty straight flight, shallow divot. I am not sure exactly what you are asking with the final 2 questions, are you asking should the 5 and 7 iron have the same launch conditions as the 6 iron, or would there be any issues if your 5 iron or the 7 iron launched like the ideal conditions for the 6 iron? -How much do you vary on club delivery for Angle or attack and Dynamic loft? The bend overlap in angle iron will be bigger so you need to allow for a 1/2 inch. GolfWRX_Official So it doesnt matter to me what loft a golfers 6 iron is, as long as that loft allows a golfer to launch and spin the ball in a way thats ideal for their swing. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? While you might prefer the overlap, interlock or full-finger style, the hold on the golf club is pretty much the same the upper portion of the grip has to be under the pad of the upper hand and held more in the fingers than the palm of both hands. Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. We also see these players having gapping issues with a mid iron, not just 4 and 5 like your example, so adding loft achieves better gapping as well. Below, you'll see the results. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. Plus, those superlight steel shafts in the 85-90 gram range feel like a softer flex than what is listed, probably due to the thinner steel in the shaft. TM M2 8.5* Graphite Design Tour AD GP 6X+ Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Upload or insert images from URL. Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. Strengthening adds offset, the sole of the club is effectively moved back, the hosel is fixed, therefore the leading edge of the sole moves away from the ball, adding offset. Chamblee takes on Tiger: Brandel, meet Bayless, Tweets of the week: Lizards, grammar police, bad greens, worse sunglasses. I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. Approach play is the area of the game that leaves a lot to be desired amongst all levels of amateur golfers. An ideal Launch Angle and Spin Rate for a Ball Speed with a 6 iron of 115 MPH would be right about 15-16* and 6000 RPMs respectively. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Are their ways to ensure a club wont break? I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. I know my distances with the Ping set too well and I dont want to go through a whole season of trial-and-error with new irons, so would it make sense to have my new Mizuno irons bent to the old Ping specs? Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. Now if you take some of the modern GI irons with the thick sole and rounded leading edge (Infiniti brand Assure comes to mind) you can de loft or strong loft it 3 or 4 degrees with no problem at all. The 2-degree limit is only recommended when changing the lofts on irons due to the potential effect such bends will have on the sole angle of the club. Late to the party but I was just searching this topic and saw your post, I just bought an old set of mizuno's that are bent 2* strong for the exact same reason as you stated above. It just depends. Brilliant information ! most amateurs like to hit the long ball not the low score. Even if you want to say a weakened 4 iron is longer in length than a 5 iron of the same loft and therefore goes farther, your gaps in your set will still be equally proportionate. Think about how much this could help golfers from the rough as well. Bending Golf Clubs: 5 Facts & Fallacies The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. I do not find these to dig at all. Strengthening the loft should decrease the effective offset shouldn't it? Driver: GolfWRX is on the ground in Orlando ahead of the 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill Club & Lodge. Hes learned nothing Olympic legend launches scathing attack on Tiger Woods over tampon apology, Golf fans left bemused following bizarre Jim Nantz blunder, Best driver 2023: Expert club fitters recommend the best driver for your swing speed, An UP-CLOSE look at Tiger Woods famous Scotty Cameron putter, David Feherty ridiculed for Greg Norman comment during LIV broadcast, Tour pro says LIV would be done if Brooks Koepka returned to PGA Tour, TOUR REPORT: McIlroy switches drivers during Genesis Invitational (plus Tigers iron change). Not only does it mess with the bounce/offset, but it's only a number on the sole if the club. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. I have read that if you bend 1 degree strong you lower the bounce on the iron. Even with limitations, many of todays metal woods are indeed bendable, especially stainless-steel heads. Wedges: Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, SteelFiber i125 S -or-Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; PM Grind 19 58* -or-Wilson Staff PMP 58*, Dynamic S -or- Ram TW282 SW -or- Ram TW276 SW I wouldn't feel comfortable messing with the bounce/offset/loft. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the club by 1.6* based on the average length club.. And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? The idea of one ideal spin rate and launch angle for each iron doesnt really make sense to me. Bending the hosel toward or away from the face plane, opens or closes the clubs face angle. (I ran into this today.) I haven't built them yet, i was wondering if the results are still working out a year or so later? 5 Testers Needed! More photos from the event here. Lower lofts will travel a bit farther and a bit lower, higher lofts will travel a bit less and fly a bit higher. Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. Your previous content has been restored. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. All bending machines are not accurate in their readings. Does that create the maximum distance for that ball speed? What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? Yes, the T200 can be bent 2 degrees flat and beyond 2 degrees upright Titleist manufactures heads 2 degrees upright which can be bent up to a further 2 degrees i.e up to 4 degrees from standard Please sign in to comment TUser January 21, 2020 at 08:09 AM Along the same lines, I got my new T200 irons late last year. IG: golfer_scott Absolutely GREAT analogy RoverRick. Location. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. In the five starts mentioned above, the St. Simons resident has some impressive first round finishes. Pasted as rich text. The palms should be aligned, that is so that the two Vs formed by your thumb and forefinger should point in the same direction, whether a bit weak or strong from the neutral position. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I take healthy beaver pelts with short irons, but the 2 iron is just a nip of grass. I even fitted a customer with a new SLDR and put him in a 12 degree head with a TP shaft. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ IG: golfer_scott It is common for a golfer with a swing speed of 70-to-80 mph or less to hit the ball with a lower trajectory than what is considered ideal. If your intent is to modify them by making them one degree strong, you will be changing the play of the iron, and also the physical appearance possible (could be debatable if the human eye can tell one degree, I'm not sure since I have never had to do this to any of my sets.). I created this website after hearing the same questions from my students over and over as a place where new golfers can come to learn and improve their golf game. Thats why I custom order iron sets with lofts that are 1-to-2 degrees weaker than standard about 40 percent of the time. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW United States. Maybe manufacturers will take note (I doubt it, but keep trying. Production Manager Wesley Turner: Five Years in the Bag. Due to how DeChambeau delivers the club, his 4-iron has a stated loft of 16 degrees; the stock Ping i230 comes in at 22.5 degrees. The 27-year-old made his way onto the top level by virtue of his performance on the Korn Ferry Tour during the combined Covid seasons, and hes doing a great job in honing his craft. Because of my forward foot was so much above my trail foot, my hands were a good 6" behind the ball, when compared to a level lie. I also don't mind the little more offset I don't over cut it. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. Clamp the piece in so only a 1/2 inch below where you want the bend in the angle iron is flush with the top of the vise. Titleist Response to USGA / R&A Distance Insights, Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong. On a driver? This is even less a personal thing than the grip with very little variation, there is a single way to set up to a golf ball to help a good golf swing happen. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. You can post now and register later. The average golfer leaves 65 percent of all approach shots short of the green. You hit the golf ball off of the heel of the club often causing the golf ball to hook or pull, You are playing clubs too short for you (again. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. I play high bounce Ping G30's and have bent some of the clubs in that set that strong. That said, people will usually launch clubs higher with a longer shaft length as well, (mechanical advantage/physics) so again, it kind of goes hand in hand with the stronger lofts. It would decrease the bounce on each club, not a good idea, as well as it would cause the ball to go farther. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. Barring physical limitations, anyone can learn to hold the club properly, and you can practice it anywhere from the sofa in front of your TV to your office while on a call. The one with a ballflight too high, is delivering the clubhead If so why mess with perfection. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. High bounce irons absorb a change like this more easily. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. After the back-to-back top-25s, he was a sneaky play at a long price for the Honda, but was never comfortable, withdrawing during the event with sinus issues. The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Secondly, it also takes absolutely no athletic ability to learn how to set up in the proper posture to make a sound golf swing possible. TM TP EF Tour Issue 50* & 56*, 62* I already have a udi 2i and am too cheap to buy a 1i to replace it. Albion, MI 49224 GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, Tuesday at 04:47 PM, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 20, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 13, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, February 6, GolfWRX_Spotted posted a topic in Tour and Pre-Release Equipment, January 31, By Learn how your comment data is processed. So, it is my contention that conditions on the course often vary much more than changing the dynamics of a club by a degree or two. Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. Endycotts weakness so far seems to be the driver, and with his stats suggesting he recovers well top-15 for approaches in recorded events this non-penal track should suit. APPLY NOW: Cleveland Frontline Elite Putters! That would depend on what GI head design you have and to be quite honest the only way to be sure would be to test these irons on a golf radar. Todays golf ball travels farther than ever before and I dont see any need to jack up the short iron lofts. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. With the high bounce level of the stock G30's, losing some of that bounce by bending it strong is no sweat, but plenty of clubs have so little bounce that bending them strong leaves virtually nothing left in the bounce department, but bounce really only helps if you strike the ball a little on the fat side. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? This feels like an anyone week the back-nine on Sunday could be fun. Just about every club that leaves the factory won't be 100% spot on for loft, manufacturing tolerances are going to throw that out. Will the clubs dig more or enough to tell a difference? Craig, I have read that it can create "diggers" is this true? (others have mentioned) I went to GG with my pops and hit the speedblade 9i for sheets and was hitting them 165-170why? Machines with fixed measuring gauges will not be accurate when measuring clubs with offset, progressive offset, or face progression hosel positions. Bending 716MB irons 1 or 2 degrees strong - Team Titleist 1 is somewhere between somewhat important to very important, then the next question has to be. Played a mp30 2i for most of the year as a gap from my 3i to my 3 wood. There was only an added 2 yards with the stronger lofts of trackman. This will give you a low-to-mid-range straight shot. The G30 is a high-launching game improvement design. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. What affect would bending an iron 2 degrees stronger have? You dont need to bend the clubs. By setting up with the ball 1" farther back in your stance, and all other things being exactly the same you are delofting the c, Intrigued by your debate, I did a little virtual bending experiment with a Taylormade UDI in Photoshop. on tight fairways. And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. How Bryson DeChambeau's Ping irons came to life | Wall-to-Wall Not every iron or wedge can be bent. FAQs Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? What bouncedoes is keep the leading edge from digging into the ground. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. Might actually help on hard ground. Another reason why stronger lofts dont always mean more distance is something I do frequently to help golfers hit the ball farther weaken lofts. All data in this article is gathered from Shot Scopes database of over 140,000 golfers and in excess of 250 million shots recorded using performance tracking products such as the unique PRO LX+ laser rangefinder. I have a 2 iron bent 2 strong to 16. Maybe its conceptually challenging but when all sets came 3-PW with heads the size of your pinky-toe, golfers either left their 3 iron home or just used it for low punch shots back to the fairway; back then, a well-hit 6 iron would outdistance an over-muscled 3 iron seven times out of 10. Still have questions? If you are a true sweeper that may be ok but you may not see that big distance gain you are hoping for. It is hard for some golfers to understand how irons with more loft can help them hit the ball farther, and this is understandable. The new grooves should also be mentioned as allowing the ball to slide up the face a little more compared to the older grooves. In turn creating around 12 more yds. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. Sure. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Putter: Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34" -or- Cleveland Huntington Beach #1, 34.5" -or- Golden Ram TW Custom, 34" -or- Rife Bimini, 34" I knew that bounce and loft have a 1:1 ratio but never thought that changing lie angle would affect swingweight but it makes perfect sense. By Greyson P. I just purchase a great used 712 AP2 set. Yes, it is possible to bend the irons 1-2 degrees stronger, but by doing so you would be reducing the effective bounce on the clubs. I would be using it off the ground as well, a little of both. Good question. I am purchasing new irons and am seriously considering getting the lofts 2* weak to create a 48* PW and 4* loft spacing. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. You may want to try searching if you need more info. Equipment counts courtesy of Darrell Survey. Check out our video: how-to bend your clubs on a Mitchell Golf Angle Machine:Get Bending! Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. Bending 2* strong will increase the clubs digging tendencies. Just curious but, can I bend a set of titleist cb718 to the titleist ap2 718 specs? I would never ever think of doing this on my own. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. This will reduce any penalty shots and subsequently the number of doubles-or-worse in your round. Great article. Bottom line: bending 2* strong may or may not cause issues. And here is why. Ping G410 LST 3 Wood Oban Tour Prototype V430 And yes it is common to not have an iron longer than 6 or 5 for some of these guys because they carry them all the same distance, and then hybrids come into play. The GI/SGI clubs are basically directed to help players with lesser abilities to hit the golf ball, usually that also means lower swing speeds. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. This is a list of all clubheads that clubmakers are not allowed to bend. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? Uneven lies can vary more than an inch, and based on club geometry that is 1.6* right there, and I can't say I had much effect on the playability of the club. Military. T200 loft and lie adjustment - Club Fitting - Team Titleist Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. So, I am now waiting for a major brand to market and advertise that their new, weaker lofts will add distance for most golfers. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid I've bent tons of clubs. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. You can also bend the angles to a consistent specification precisely fit for any golfer. Callaway Epic - HZRDUS BlackCobra F9 3 Wood You may have heard golfers talk about how they need to use a flatter club or that they need to change their lie angle. Should I have my new 3-Iron Bent 1 Degree Strong? You won't notice it. Hi all, I was wondering if bending a club 2* strong would affect the playability of said club? And you are right about the irons listed, X Hot is a shockingly low launching iron and the G25 would be the exact opposite, with Rocketbladez mixed in the middle. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not.". I don't have any problems with the slight increase in offset and the lower bounce but if needed you could get someone to grind the leading edge a bit to put some bounce back. 4-AW with juiced lofts is the same set as an old 3-PW that would probably be 22*-48*. Explaining The Meaning of Loft Angle in Golf Clubs - LiveAbout I did this with my current set and the results are great. Hope this Helps! Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. Even with the knowledge of club bending and its importance on your play, there are a lot of misconceptions about what can and cant be done with a clubs loft and lie. Copyright 2022 MyGolfSpy Machines that adjust for all hosel positions, such asMitchell Angle Machinesare accurate regardless of the offset or hosel design of the golf club. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. Simply put, bending the iron 6.5 degrees strong wasn't an option. If you're a true picker, wont make you a digger. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag. Backups:Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip | SeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT. Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. This is a dumb question but were you fit for them? With added ball speed comes more launch. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Thankfully gone are the days of everyone demanding s300 S or X when they dont have the swing speed to support them.